INTERVIEW WITH CLIVE born 1923 AND VERNER CLEMENTS born 1919 AND LORNA DWYER born 1912 - all raised on 'Model Farm' Towamba.
INTERVIEW DATE: October 14th, 1997

Lorna Dwyer was raised at 'Model Farm' about two miles east of Towamba. She joined the Clements family after her mother died when she was born, and was raised by Grandma Clements. Her father was Edwin Love, her mother was a Clements.
Clive and Verner's mother was a Stevens from Wangrabelle, near Genoa in Victoria. Two other brothers were Gordon and Ron.
Memories are clear of their early life of school and the farm. Lorna, about fifteen years older than Clive and Verner, has memories of stories her grandmother recalled. A time when pigs and turkeys were driven over the mountain into Eden, travelling circuses, dances and social sports and the dawn of electricity and the telephone in this small isolated valley are vividly portrayed.

KATE. WHAT I WOULD LIKE IS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT TOWAMBA'S EARLY DAYS. I AM PARTICULARLY INTERESTED TOO, IN WHAT THE WOMEN HAD TO DO. THERE IS VERY LITTLE WRITTEN ABOUT TOWAMBA HISTORICALLY, SO WHAT CAN YOU REMEMBER OF YOUR PARENTS, WHERE THEY CAME FROM, WHAT YOUR MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME WAS AND WHERE THEY FARMED?
LORNA. My mother's maiden name was Clements and my father was Edwin Love and he was dairying out towards Pericoe at the time and when I was born, my mother died and my Grandma Clements reared me. I was reared by these boys' (Clive and Verner's) father. He was like a real father to me.
KATE. SO YOU ARE RELATED TO...
LORNA. We are really cousins..... more brothers and sister. I was three weeks old when my mother died. My brother was fifteen months old. He lived with my father.
KATE. SO YOU BECAME ONE OF THE FAMILY?
LORNA. Oh, yes. Clive and Verner's mother was good to me... When you're talking about the washing... well she had a wash house down the back of the house and she had this great big copper and we'd fill it up of a Sunday. It would take fifteen or twenty gallons, I would think. It was a huge thing.
KATE. WAS THIS AT 'MODEL FARM?
LORNA. At 'Model Farm', and we'd stoke it up with wood all underneath and they stuck in their clothes, put in all the sheets, the white clothes and soak it all in for the morning. We'd start off early in the morning and boil her up then they'd have to lift them out with a stick and then they'd lift them out of that and put them into a basket thing to drain then they'd have to carry them away across to another big round tub, not like they have now and then lift it out and tip the water out.
KATE. NO PLUGS?
LORNA. No plugs. Oh, God, no. Then you'd put it into like, one lot of water and you'd rinse them out of that and then put them into the blue water. And it was all done by hand. All the sheets were all rung out by hand.
KATE. WERE THE TUBS FILLED UP MANUALLY WITH A BUCKET?
LORNA. Oh, yes. From a tap in a tank way across the yard. And then you'd have to cart that in a big basket a good way up to the clothes line then. And then you'd come back and do the second lot, the coloured clothes. And then eventually towards night time you'd be getting around to the men's clothes. I mean, it 'd be an all day job.
KATE. HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO FINISH?
LORNA. It would take pretty well all day to wash, up to about two or three o'clock and then Aunty Grace would have to go back to the yard then, I suppose, to milk.
KATE. WAS IT JUST YOU AND CLIVE, VERN?
VERNER. No, there were four boys, one older than me. Both Gordon and Ron have passed on.
KATE. AND DID THE BOYS EVER HELP WITH THE WASHING? WAS THERE A DEFINITE DIVISION ON MEN'S WORK AND WOMEN'S WORK?
VERNER. There was definitely men's work and then the women helped the men. I was Mum's off-sider. You'd just used to do it. But then we'd have two men working there besides.
KATE. DID YOU HAVE MUCH LAND AT 'MODEL FARM'?
LORNA. All that cleared ground. And all that across the river and acres and acres. There'd be a few hundred acres over there.
CLIVE. We didn't use that much.
LORNA. But we owned it. There'd be a few acres over there.
CLIVE. Three hundred and twenty acres.
LORNA. I don't know who lives over there now.
CLIVE. It's all cut up now.
LORNA. Kurt Pongratz's farm came in between. We were on this side of the river.
KATE. AND DID YOU HAVE CATTLE? DID YOU MILK?
CLIVE. Yes. Dairy.
VERNER. By hand.
CLIVE. And pigs.

Dairy at 'Model Farm' Towamba

KATE. HOW MANY ANIMALS DID YOU MILK BY HAND?
CLIVE. Oh, fifty, but when I was only little, Dad sold the farm to his brother, over cattle, and he bought the farm off his brother and he went in to pigs for a couple of years. Just all pigs and he was supposed to be looking after the pigs one day when Mum was washing and the pigs took to Mum and chased her down to the orchard. (laughter)
VERNER. All that flat was put in with corn and that was a lot of work.
LORNA. There used to be four or five hundred pigs.
VERNER. We'd used to drive them to Eden.
KATE. WAS THAT WITH A HORSE OR WALKING?
CLIVE. Walking first, I think before my time, and then Dad came up in the world, he started to use a horse and cart.
VERNER. They'd drive them up the top of the mountain and stay over night then start off next morning before daylight and drive them into Eden.
KATE. HOW DID THE PIGS TAKE THAT. WAS IT HARD ON THEIR FEET?
CLIVE. Well they used to run free, not like now-a-days, shut in the sty all day. They were used to running around, you see.
KATE. SO YOU'D HAVE TO WALK...DID YOU HAVE A DOG?
CLIVE. You'd have a dog and horses..... and ride the horses.
LORNA. And they'd have a cart and there'd be feed in the dray, to take for the pigs.
KATE. THERE'S THAT STORY, TOO, OF DRIVING TURKEYS DOWN TO THE COAST AND RUNNING THEM THROUGH THE TAR PIT. DID THEY REALLY DO THAT?
CLIVE. Yeah.
KATE. SO THEY'D HAVE A BIT OF A COATING ON THEIR FEET.
CLIVE. Yeah. Sand and then tar.
LORNA. I can remember my grandmother telling me that they used to bring turkeys down from Bombala down to the Bay, as we'd call Eden, and down at 'Model Farm' there was a wooden fence and the turkeys used to camp up along there of a night. It must have been a stopping place. I don't know... maybe they did have something on their feet. My mother used to drive turkeys down in her early years.
VERNER. They'd leave home and go up through Burragate, Wyndham and Rocky Hall collecting pigs on the way up and then they'd drive back and pick up turkeys on the way back.
KATE. SO YOU HAD CORN, YOU MILKED, YOU HAD PIGS... AND THEN YOU'D KILL YOUR OWN... WHAT ABOUT SHOPPING AND... COULD YOU GET ALL YOU WANTED AT TOWAMBA STORE? OR WOULD YOU HAVE TO GO FURTHER?
LORNA. The store had a good few things in those times.
VERNER. The butcher used to run around with his wagon.
KATE. SO WAS THERE A BUTCHER IN TOWAMBA?
VERNER. In Yambulla's time. That was when George Brown used to run around...... Burgess and Brown....
LORNA. There used to be a lot of butchers in and around Towamba...
VERNER. In the mining days out at Yambulla there were butchers in Towamba. The Dickies were butchers. They lived where Ray Love lives. They'd take their meat out to Yambulla.
KATE. SO DICKIES LIVED WHERE RAY LOVE LIVES NOW?
VERNER. Yeah. One of them did.
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER MUCH ABOUT MY PLACE AT ALL? I LIVE IN HARTNEADY'S OLD STORE.
CLIVE. I used to remember going to school, going into there and getting biscuits.
KATE. WAS THERE ANOTHER SECTION TO THE HOUSE?
LORNA. There was a big shop and then there was the billiard room and you went round and there was the residence.
CLIVE. The shop was, looking at it, was nearest the right-hand corner.
LORNA. Right the length of the building.
KATE. THAT SECTION HAS GONE.
LORNA. The billiard room was a big room, wasn't it?
KATE. THAT WOULD BE MY LOUNGE-ROOM NOW.
LORNA. But I think the Comet store, that was built, must have been about 1910, and I think that was before your store, I wouldn't be sure. But that's been there ever since I've heard anyone talk about that old store at Towamba.
KATE. JACK BEASLEY TOLD ME MY HOUSE CAME FROM YAMBULLA ON A DRAY. IT HAS BEEN TAKEN APART, YOU CAN SEE THAT, AND PUT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN. THERE WAS STILL A NUMBER FOUR ON ONE OF THE BEDROOM DOORS. AND HE SAID THOSE BEDROOMS CAME FROM AN OLD HOTEL AT YAMBULLA.
LORNA. There was a hotel out there.
CLIVE. He might've been right too.
LORNA. I can remember the sale. It must be pretty old.
KATE. THERE'S A HOLE IN THE CEILING IN THE BEDROOMS. I EXPECT, WHERE THE FLUE USED TO GO UP THROUGH THE CEILING. THERE IS STILL TIN AROUND THE HOLE.... KEPT THE MINERS WARM AT NIGHT...........SO YOU MADE YOUR OWN BUTTER, BREAD?
LORNA. A lot of the people made their own bread. They had their own camp ovens, no not camp ovens, big ovens.
KATE. PROPER BREAD OVENS?
LORNA. They had a big one at home but not in my time, they didn't make bread. My aunts all did.
KATE. YOU GREW ALL YOUR OWN VEGIES?
LORNA. Oh, yes.
KATE. CHOOKS?
LORNA. Yes.
KATE. AND DO YOU REMEMBER ANY BIG CHANGES IN THE VALLEY. WAS THERE A BIG CHANGE TO CAUSE THE BUILD UP OF SAND IN THE RIVER? PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED WHEN THE RABBITS CAME, EARLY IN THE CENTURY, THE RIVER FILLED UP.
VERNER. When I was going to school I used to ride a horse under the bridge on the side. CLIVE. The old bridge.
KATE. THE HIGH ONE?
CLIVE. Not the one that got washed away. The little low one.
KATE. WHERE THE CEMENT RAMP IS NOW?
CLIVE. Yes.
KATE. RAY LOVE SAID HE COULD RIDE ON HORSE BACK UNDER THAT...... WHEN HE WAS A KID.
CLIVE. Oh, easy.
KATE. SO IT FILLED UP PRETTY QUICKLY.
CLIVE. Yeah.
LORNA. There was big holes in that river. There wasn't much sand. Huge holes, big water holes. The sand was nothing like that when I used to go to school.
VERNER. All those big swimming holes are filled up now. There are a couple about..... South's hole. All the kids go up there.
LORNA. Down, near the factory, where the old factory used to be.
KATE. ON THE CORNER BEFORE YOU GO OVER FERNY FLAT BRIDGE?
LORNA. There was a very deep hole there and one of the Beasley girls was drowned there. They were working in that farm there and she was drowned.
KATE. WERE THERE LOTS OF DANCES AROUND THE AREA?
VERNER. Oh yes. We used to ride to Pericoe on our horses, dance all night and come home and milk the cows. Hook the horses up and do a day's work in the paddock.
KATE. I SUPPOSE EVERYBODY DRESSED UP?
LORNA. Oh, dressed up! The girls always wore evening dress. Boys would have suits, collars and ties.
KATE. AND THE MUSIC? WOULD IT BE LOCAL PEOPLE?
VERNER. There were three bands in Towamba once. They'd put it out by tender. They'd all put in their price.
LORNA. There's the piano, the violin and ...
CLIVE. A set of drums sometimes.
KATE. ACCORDION?
LORNA. Oh, yes. They'd play extras on the accordion, wouldn't they. I don't know about at Towamba but they did at Kiah. Mrs Harris always used to play extras on the accordion.
VERNER. They used to go to Eden, Kiah and Pambula for dances. That's all we had to do....and play sport.
CLIVE. There used to be travelling pictures come around when I was a kid.
KATE. WOULD THEY SET UP AT THE HALL?
LORNA. And there was, I don't know whether it was in your time, (referring to Clive and Vern) old Sloggetts.
KATE. MAGICIAN SLOGGETT? BARRY (JACKSON) PULLED DOWN THE DIVIDING WALL BETWEEN THE DRESSING ROOMS (IN THE OLD HALL) AND I LINED MY KITCHEN WALLS WITH IT. AND ALL THE GRAFFITI WAS STILL ON IT AND MAGICIAN SLOGGETT, AND THE YEAR, AND THERE WAS THE 'ZODIACS'. BUT MAGICIAN SLOGGETT MUST HAVE GONE THERE FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS.
LORNA. And then they had the ' Greenwoods' They lived down near the Nullica. Was Greenwood's their name?
CLIVE. Yes.
LORNA. And they had their own company and they used to put on that show... "East Lyn".
KATE. A PLAY?
LORNA. A play the family did. I can remember them coming to Towamba once or twice for the shows.
VERNER. We used to skate in the hall. Roller skates. There were circuses coming through in those times. Every few months.
KATE. THEY'D COME ALL THE WAY OUT TO TOWAMBA?
VERNER. Yeah, and go around all the little towns.
KATE. AND DID THEY HAVE A VEHICLE, A TRUCK?
CLIVE. No. Horses and walked.
KATE. THAT WAS PRETTY ADVENTUROUS, COMING OUT ALL THAT WAY.
VERNER. The Eden Highway wasn't all that good in those days.
KATE. SO WHEN WAS THE HIGHWAY SEALED?
LORNA. From Eden to Bega? I can remember in about 1930 it was sealed from Bega to Wolumla...... about 1928-29, about that time. I was working in Cobargo at that time. And the people in Bega were all saying, 'Oh, they'll get killed on that road, you know, its that fast!'
CLIVE. It was in the fifties before it was sealed right through.
LORNA. Oh, yes. That was only to Wolumla, it was a long time after that.
KATE. ONE LADY I SPOKE TO SAID SHE GREW UP AT NULLICA AND THE THING SHE COULD REMEMBER ABOUT GOING TO BEGA WAS HOOTING THE HORN, EVERY CORNER THEY CAME TO, BECAUSE IT WAS A WINDING TRACK AND A LOT OF BLIND CORNERS . IT WAS A BIG DAY GOING TO BEGA .
VERNER. Someone had to get off the road. On those corners somebody had to go somewhere.
LORNA. It wouldn't be a lot better than the snake track, really. Would it?
KATE. IT WOULD BE PRETTY DANGEROUS I SUPPOSE WITH WET WEATHER.
CLIVE. There wasn't the traffic on the roads those times.
LORNA. Like if you went into Eden, it'd be probably once a month.
VERNER. Oh, we'd didn't get there much. We were too busy.
LORNA. When they were driving the horse and sulky it would only be about once a month to the shop. The shop at Towamba, I think they seemed to...they catered for horseshoes and all those sort of things. Men's boots and.....
KATE. WASN'T THERE A BLACKSMITH NEAR ROB EDE'S GATE, NEAR THE SHOP?
CLIVE. Yes, that's right.
LORNA. There used to a blacksmith's shop many years ago up the corner, where you turn up to go to Burragate.
KATE. THAT WOULD BE TWO.
LORNA. I don't know whether they'd be there together. That was before my time really, or I can remember the shop being there. And up past that a bit was an hotel, further up. The road used to go across there to Pericoe. That was the main road used to go up past Boller's .
VERNER. The road used to go past there to Pericoe and cross near the police station.
KATE. AND THE PUB BURNED DOWN, DID IT?
LORNA. Not that one. There was another one, a new hotel was built down on the corner opposite this blacksmith's shop and it was burnt down. I think Robinson's owned it. They had the shop. And they built this new hotel and they never lived in it.
CLIVE. I can remember Mum and a lot of people used to get a lot of stuff from Sydney.
LORNA. You'd get all your clothing and that by post.
KATE. WOULD YOU BUY THROUGH A CATALOGUE?
LORNA. Oh, yes. You'd have a dozen or more catalogues.
CLIVE. And other stuff from Sydney, too.
LORNA. MacElrays.
CLIVE. It'd come down in a big box on the boat.
VERNER. And there was a tea agent that would come around selling tea.
LORNA. You'd get a big tin.
KATE. COULDN'T YOU JUST GET THAT AT THE SHOP?
VERNER. They'd just come around and take your order...
LORNA. It was bought in bulk in the olden days. See, you'd get big bags of sugar and 25 pound of flour and all that sort of thing.
VERNER. And Hawkers used to come around with a horse and cart selling all sorts of things, clothes, needles and cotton and all that stuff. In modernisation they got vehicles.
LORNA. They used to carry a lot of stuff up at the store, like calico and lots of household things and materials. There wouldn't be much choice I suppose, you'd take it or leave it. Cretonne was a great ado in those days, this floral cretonne. Everyone had curtains of this coloured cretonne. I can remember they had a dance at Towamba, they had a Cretonne Ball. I was only a kid. Aunty Grace went but the women had a cretonne dress. But then the people in Sydney, Hordon Bros, they'd send you out little samples of material, and you'd get these packs of samples and you'd look through and pick out your sample, whatever you wanted, colour or different sorts of materials.
KATE. AND CHURCH. OBVIOUSLY TOWAMBA CHURCH (ST. PAULS) HAD BEEN THERE A LONG TIME. DID BURRAGATE HAVE A CHURCH?
LORNA. Not in my time.
KATE. SO THEY WOULD'VE HAD CHURCH IN THE SCHOOL OR THE HALL?
VERNER. The Presbyterian church was in the hall. (Towamba)
LORNA. They'd go to Wyndham, I'd imagine. Burragate people and Rocky Hall people.
VERNER. Harold Binnie used to come to Towamba. You see in those times the Church of England were the only ones who used the church. The Catholics had church in someone's house. They wouldn't all go to the same church in the old days.
KATE. SO WOULD THERE BE A BIT OF COMPETITION AS TO WHO'S HOUSE FATHER WOULD SAY MASS IN?
LORNA. Oh, no we were all pretty friendly. It was all a big community affair, you know, you'd all meet on a Sunday at someone's home ...
VERNER. Mr. Binnie up there, Arthur Binnie and he'd come in and the collection plate would be there and he'd put two shillings right in the middle of it. When we were kids we used to think, by gee, he must have a lot of money that feller, with two shillings on the plate. But when you think of it, Dad had four boys and Mum and we'd all have three pence each and I suppose Dad put on a shilling and sixpence so we'd probably put more on than him. But we used to think he must have been rich with this two shillings. I suppose we though it was a lot of dough in those times. Well, it was a fair bit I suppose.
CLIVE. Do you remember old Donny Laing? You'd go to put a penny on the plate and he'd say "Put it in your pocket." He was a marvellous man. So I'd put in back in my pocket.
KATE. DID BINNIES LIVE WHERE HAYE'S LIVE NOW... 'DUNBLANE'?
LORNA. Yes they owned land from Burragate to that place called 'By Jingo'. From there... and there was a big dairy farm down from there and that belonged to Dave Binnie and belonged to 'Dunblane' and then opposite to 'Dunblane' there was Andrew Binnie, he owned all over there and then down at Hayes'...we used to call it 'Jerusalem', I don't know what they call it now.
CLIVE. 'Hill-n-Dale'.
LORNA. And that was Herbert Binnie's. See there was Binnies opposite 'Model Farm' and there was Alec Binnie, there was another one of them.
CLIVE. Where Johnny lives, Arthur used to live there.
LORNA. None of them had any family. Coral? had one. Dave Binnie had one, no, two, and Andrew had one I think. Alec didn't have any. Arthur didn't have any.
KATE. THEN HOW DID WOMEN GET ON WITH HAVING BABIES? DID YOU GO TO HOSPITAL OR DID YOU HAVE A MIDWIFE THAT CAME AROUND, OR A NEIGHBOUR THAT USED TO HELP?
LORNA. In the real early times I can remember Grandma Clements saying how they used to go to one another's places and help them.
VERNER. The midwife in Eden, she used to come out...
LORNA. Well, Mrs. Robinson at the store and she came down home when Ron was born, I remember, and Melva Parker, she was just an ordinary... not a trained nurse or anything, but could do it , I suppose.
KATE. IT WAS A LONG WAY...WAS PAMBULA THE NEAREST HOSPITAL?
LORNA. There was one at Eden for a while but it got burned down, didn't it.
VERNER. And the only way to get there was by horse and sulky, too.
LORNA. They mostly had their babies at home. Someone'd look after them.
KATE. AND WHAT ABOUT COURTING AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING? WOULD YOU MEET YOUR GIRLFRIEND AT THE DANCE?
CLIVE. Gloria (Clive's wife) came from Sydney and I met her at a dance, and it went on from there.
KATE. AND THE SCHOOL......FROM THE RECORDS AT THE SCHOOL, KIDS DIDN'T GO THERE FOR VERY LONG.
LORNA. Fourteen.
GLORIA. (Clive's wife) Did you (Clive) tell about your mother riding from Wangrabelle to the dance at Towamba. Her family was from Geelong in Victoria.
VERNER. It's (Wangrabelle) eighteen kilometers up river from Genoa and she used to ride through Yambulla. We used to ride through as kids, through there.
GLORIA. They'd carry their dresses on the horse and change in the hall.
KATE. SO HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO RIDE BACK? A DAY?
CLIVE. Arthur Beasley took cattle through there many years ago now and they'd do it in a day.
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER YAMBULLA FOLDING UP?
LORNA. I can remember the sale they had out there. I was only a kid about five or six and that would be eighty years ago, easy, since they had that.
KATE. AND DID THEY MOVE HOUSES. DID THEY TAKE HOUSES APART?
LORNA. I don't know what they did. I can remember them selling the furniture and Arthur went out and I can remember he bought some things out there. It was a great ado.
KATE. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN REMEMBER, LIKE FUNNY THINGS OR ANYTHING AT ALL YOU CAN REMEMBER.....STORIES OR ANYTHING YOUR PARENTS CAN REMEMBER ABOUT TOWAMBA?
VERNER. There weren't too many cars and one turned up at the dance and some of the fellows jacked up the back and took the wheels away. He didn't have a clue what was wrong with it.
CLIVE. That was an old model T Ford, wasn't it?
VERNER. There was a lot of sport out there, too.
KATE. THE CRICKET?
VERNER. And football.
LORNA. And there was racing. It used to be up there opposite the cemetery. And the cricket used to be up there.
VERNER. I can remember going to the races. 'Ladybird' was one of the horses.
LORNA. And they used to have the sports up there and they had a tennis court up there too.
KATE. ALL THE BUILDINGS, THEN, THEY WERE ALL WEATHER BOARD AROUND THE TOWN?
GLORIA. Lorna's father was George Love's step brother.
LORNA. George was my stepbrother, yes. I never lived with my father. My brother did . That's why we were never together. I went to live with these boys. (Clive and Verner).
KATE. AND WERE YOU A LOVE? ( to Lorna)
LORNA. Yes.
KATE. SO YOU ARE A COUSIN TO GEORGE?
LORNA. No. George was my stepbrother. Half brother really. My father married again ..to George's mother.
KATE. SO WERE THERE A LOT OF LOVES OUT THERE?
LORNA. Oh there were a few out there. Some of them went away. Not many there in my day.
KATE. CLIVE, THAT LITTLE CEMETERY OVER THE RIVER FROM MACEY'S ... THERE IS A MITCHELL BURIED IN THERE, WAS THAT ANY RELATION OF YOURS?
CLIVE. Some relation.
LORNA. Mitchell? That was Jane. That was Grandma Clements' mother. She was buried there and also her daughter.......
KATE. ONE YEAR LATER ACCORDING TO THE HEADSTONE, WHICH YOU CAN STILL READ.
LORNA. Can you really!
KATE. YES THERE'S A FOOT STONE THERE TOO. WHAT WAS IT DOING THERE, DO YOU KNOW?
CLIVE. I can remember it being there when I was a kid going to school.
LORNA. I used to go there with my grandmother to tend the graves.
KATE. WAS THE SCHOOL ALWAYS WHERE IT IS TODAY?
LORNA. I don't know whether it was that building but it was there on site....yes. My mother and Clive and Verner's father and all our family all went to school there... what schooling they had. It must be over 100 years ago...it'd be more.....it would be well over 100..
KATE. IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1862.
VERNER. There was another little school somewhere. I can remember them talking about it.
LORNA. There was one down at Lower Towamba.
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER THE ELECTRICITY COMING TO TOWN?
VERNER. I know it came to the town and it stopped... and I know Jim Sawers and Dad fought to get this power on and it just went to the township and stopped! We didn't get it.
KATE. IT CAME FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION? (WYNDHAM)
CLIVE. It came from Wyndham.
KATE. OH, SO IT DIDN'T COME FROM THE COAST?
VERNER. We were told if we wanted it we'd have to pay for it. It took us three or four years to get that.
KATE. AND THE TELEPHONE?
CLIVE. No it was on before that.
LORNA. 1924 or somewhere about that it went on down at 'Model Farm'. And that was a big deal too, getting that on. There were people further on, down the river and across the river, they had a party line. At home we had a line. But I can remember the men there working on it and I was only a kid going to school when that was put down there.
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE VILLAGE OF STURT WAS CHANGED TO TOWAMBA? STURT WAS ON MY SIDE OF THE RIVER (PERICOE SIDE) WHAT HAPPENED TO STURT?
CLIVE. It's still on the map as the village of Sturt....yes.
LORNA. It was always Towamba in my time.
KATE. WAS MATTHEWS' HOUSE ONCE A BILLIARD ROOM?
CLIVE. And livery stuff there, too.
VERNER. I can remember seeing the billiard table there when I was a kid.
KATE. WERE THERE ANY ABORIGINES AROUND WHEN YOU WERE A KID OR IN YOUR PARENTS TIME?
LORNA. There used to be a part Aborigine and he used to work at home occasionally. Jack Brindle was his name. But he wasn't very dark.... a very nice chap. He used to live in the house with us. I remember the old chappies with the turbans on that used to live at Burragate. I used to be frightened of him anyhow he had a bit of hair sticking up the top and he used to ride the horse. It was just that he was different, I think.
KATE. WERE THERE ANY HOUSES THAT AREN'T THERE NOW?
LORNA. There was a cottage down near the factory. (Ferny Flat) There was a manager's cottage there.
VERNER. There was one down near Orman's. Stanley Parker had a house there where the corn shed is?
LORNA. And up from 'Model Farm' towards Eden, there are a couple of old Chestnut trees, there used to be a big home there. I think Jack Dickie planted those trees because he was an Englishman and he lived there. And I'd say he planted those trees being English and he went from there more down to the river and built another cottage.
KATE. WOULD THAT BE WHERE 'PUKAWIDGEE' IS?
CLIVE. Yeah.
KATE. CAN YOU REMEMBER PEOPLE GETTING WATTLE BARK?
VERNER. We had a wattle bark mill in Eden we used to spend a few days crushing it and bagging it up and sending it to Sydney.
LORNA. I can remember them cutting it up at home too.
VERNER. In the early days you'd cut it with an axe and get a hollow log. They'd lay the bark in the hollow log so it wouldn't bounce around and cut it in that. Then shovel it into bags.
KATE. DID THEY GET SLEEPERS OUT FROM ABOVE YOUR PLACE?
VERNER. Yes. Our flats used to be all covered with big box trees when Dad's father took it up. He cleared it.
KATE. DID YOU THINK LIFE WAS GOOD?
CLIVE. Oh I don't know...you could go anywhere you liked and run around, but now you can't... in safety.
KATE. IF YOUR MUM COULD RIDE HER HORSE EIGHTEEN MILES TO A DANCE...WOULD SHE RIDE HOME IN THE DARK?
VERNER. No she'd stay overnight at her sister's up there where Connie (Boller) lives. (The old wine saloon and at one time "ALLAWAH" Guest House)
VERNER. If you wanted a post, you could go up in the bush and cut it and bring it home
and build a fence without all the restrictions now. People'd make their living sleeper cutting,
getting wattle bark and rabbits .
KATE. WOULD YOU TRAP RABBITS OR SHOOT THEM?
VERNER. The kids used to trap rabbits.
CLIVE. I'd check them on the way to school to get a bit of pocket money.
LORNA. You'd have to trap them to keep them down.
KATE. WERE THEY IN PLAGUE PROPORTIONS?
LORNA. Yes.
VERNER. You'd have to keep at them all the time.
KATE. DID YOU SELL THE MEAT AS WELL AS THE SKINS?
CLIVE. Not those times.
VERNER. You'd feed them to the pigs or dogs or whatever.
KATE. DID YOU HAVE A RABBIT STEW YOURSELF?
LORNA. You'd see enough of them without eating them.
VERNER. We have eaten them...back legs are good. They're not bad eating.
KATE. DID YOU HAVE TO PRESERVE YOUR MEAT BY SALTING IT?
VERNER. You'd kill the pig and salt it all down and make you own bacon. We had an old kitchen where the rafters go across and we'd put the bacon and hams and hang them all up in there. There was a big fire at one end and you just smoked it and you'd cut some off when you wanted it.
LORNA. Beautiful ham. You don't buy it now.
LORNA. After the bridge was washed away (in the 1919 flood) they put a temporary thing across .. a little wooden thing like you'd put across a creek .

Footbridge over the Towamba River after first bridge was washed away in the flood of 1919. The approaches of the bridge can be seen in the background.

KATE. LIKE AN ARMY TYPE?
GLORIA. No, planks.
LORNA. I had to stay up at Marty's and of a weekend they'd come up to get me and we had to come across this bridge. I was frightened to walk on it.
KATE. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE, THEN?
LORNA. It was such a narrow thing, that's what frightened me.
KATE. SO WHAT WAS THE CROSSING LIKE UP ON THE PERICOE ROAD?
VERNER. It was fairly rocky.
LORNA. But that big bridge that was taken away, it was huge.
KATE. THAT'S UP AT NEW BUILDINGS, ISN'T IT?
VERNER. Yes.
LORNA. I thought that bridge was washed down the river. A lot of the Towamba bridge ended up on your flats.
VERNER. The bridge up at Rocky Hall now, that's the old Towamba Bridge.
LORNA. There wasn't a bridge left on the river.
KATE. WAS THAT WHEN THE WATER WENT UP TO THE COUNTER OF THE SHOP?
VERNER. Yes I think so.
LORNA. It went up into the store, didn't it?
VERNER. Yes. There's a thing there... a high water mark on your side.
KATE. YES, THERE'S ONE ON MY SIDE OF THE RIVER ON THE BLOCK OVER THE ROAD... 1919 IN ROMAN NUMERALS.

AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS.

Building the first bridge across the Towamba River at Towamba

NOTES

Lorna Dwyer showed me a small certificate that belonged to her grandmother commemorating her Confirmation in 1888 at the age of 31 years in St.Paul's church, Towamba.
Clive told me that two men worked full time on the Towamba Road walking along with a gravel cart filling in holes with a spade. They walked from end to end.
When the river flooded in 1919 the bridge was swept away and ended up on Clements's flat. He said there were bits of bridge everywhere. It took months to be collected. A make-shift bridge was placed across the river made from planks. Lorna Dwyer hated going across this, it frightened her. When the water level was higher, the children were rowed across in a dinghy.

CLEMENTS

Verner and Clive's grandfather: William Clements
Grandmother: Elizabeth Mitchell
Children of William and Elizabeth Clements:
Hannah, Martha, Edmund, Elizabeth, Alice, Edith, Adeline, Mary, Ruth, Elsie,
William, Arthur, David.

Verner and Clive's father: Arthur Clements
Mother: Grace Stevens
Children of Arthur and Grace Clements:
Gordon, Ron, Verner, Clive, Gloria.

LOVE

Lorna's father: Edwin Love
Mother: Ruth Clements

Children of Edwin and Ruth Love:
Austin, Lorna.