INTERVIEW WITH PHYLLIS SOUTH (Rollo South's wife) came to Towamba in 1961.
INTERVIEW DATE: June 18th, 1999

Phyllis South came to Towamba after she married, in 1961. Having grown up in an isolated area the way of life she was already familiar with continued until the electricity was connected in 1963. The Souths milked cows until the Pambula Butter Factory closed down then for a time drove their whole milk to Bega. This became unviable so Phyllis continued milking by hand and delivered milk to locals around the village. She has a detailed memory of those people who lived in Towamba village in the early 1960's.

KATE. I HAVE ROLLO'S (Phyllis's husband) BACKGROUND, NOW, WHEN DID YOU COME HERE?
PHYLLIS. 1961. I came down here when I was married. I had been down before I was married.
KATE. SO, WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST IMPRESSIONS?
PHYLLIS. Oh, now, let me think......
KATE. DID YOU THINK YOU WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE?
PHYLLIS. No, because I was used to that.
KATE. WHERE DID YOU COME FROM?
PHYLLIS. We were in Kangaroo Valley and we lived down near Bendeela and it was more isolated than this. And that's where the power station and all that is now. It was more isolated than this. There was only the farm and the road came in and it went out. That was all there was. You couldn't see a car going up and down past your place.
KATE. SO WHEN YOU CAME DOWN WAS THE HIGHWAY SEALED BETWEEN BEGA AND EDEN?
PHYLLIS. It was just done. That's the Princes Highway. Actually it was being done in '58 , '59 and '60. And it was sealed in part and it wasn't sealed around Frog's Hollow and around there. It was sealed through Pambula and from Quarentine Bay down it wasn't sealed. But they were doing it there. Every time it rained it was dreadful.
KATE. I SUPPOSE OUR ROAD WAS JUST AS BAD.
PHYLLIS. Yes. It was just as bad. At one time we had some very heavy rain and it was about '62 or '63 and they had the grader at Lower Towamba turn off and if anyone wanted to get out, they pulled them up around the corner to get them up the hill. And after that it went into drought.
KATE. WITH THE DIFFICULT MOUNTAINOUS ROAD INTO EDEN, DO YOU THINK THAT WAS ONE REASON BEGA BECAME TOWAMBA'S MAIN CENTRE OR WAS IT BECAUSE BEGA HAD THE FARM SUPPLIES?
PHYLLIS. I think that was why.....there was nothing in Eden. Well, even the main street then wasn't sealed. And its only since the chip mill went in that anything was done in Eden. The chip mill went in and then Eden went along. When they finished sealing the highway down there, they did the main street up there and that was all.
KATE. SO THAT WAS DONE JUST BEFORE THE CHIP MILL.
PHYLLIS. Just before. You went out of Eden and it was just dirt road.
KATE. THAT'S NOT ALL THAT LONG AGO.
PHYLLIS. It's amazing really.....when you stop and think what has been done in that time, thirty years, its amazing.
KATE. WHEN YOU CAME OUT HERE......WHAT I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WAS YOUR MILK RUN. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT WAS YOUR NORMAL MILK RUN DAY. YOU'D MILK HOW MANY COWS?
PHYLLIS. That all depends on....you see, it grew. Before I came here, everybody had their own cow. And the cows used to run around the town. The population was growing a little bit more but then people were becoming a bit more independent. They didn't want to milk the cows because they had to be home to do it. If they didn't get their cow in the afternoon well you'd never know where it was the next morning.
KATE. THAT WAS IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH LAND FOR IT TO GRAZE ON.
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. SO THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE VILLAGE WHO HAD A COW AND THEY LET IT WANDER AROUND TO FEED ON SIDE OF THE ROAD.
PHYLLIS. Yes. You see, Albie Love had one, Hinda McLeod had one and Parker's had one and Laurie Beasley had one when his mother was alive. See, the cows used to come home at times because they used to get fed when they got milked but sometimes if they were getting enough around the town they wouldn't come home, you'd have to go and get them.
KATE. SO YOU'D MILK AND YOUR MILK RUN DEVELOPED AFTER PEOPLE NO LONGER HAD THEIR COWS.
PHYLLIS. Yes. See, we were still milking and sending the cream and that and everybody used to come and get milk from the dairy. We weren't the only ones but those closest to us used to come to us. And those closest to Darcy (Parker) used to go up to Darcy's to get milk and all the others around. But when all the dairies closed down.....
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS?
PHYLLIS. '64 I think when we sent milk to Bega. It was around the '64 mark. Well, you see then, Orman's used to take the milk in when they had the mail run. They used to take the milk in three times a week.
KATE. NOW WHICH ORMAN WAS THAT?
PHYLLIS. Fred. Dave's father. Well, they gave it up and then we continued sending the milk in three times a week because we had the refrigerated vats...
KATE. THEY WERE STILL TAKING WHOLE MILK. WHAT WERE THEY DOING WITH IT? THEY USED TO TAKE JUST THE CREAM DIDN'T THEY?
PHYLLIS. They wanted the milk because of the consumption of the population......
KATE. SO THEY WERE TAKING YOUR WHOLE MILK TO PASTEURISE......
PHYLLIS. Yes. To pasteurise.
KATE. THEY WOULD SEPARATE IT....
PHYLLIS. Yes, they'd do all that.
KATE. SO THAT WOULD MAKE IT MUCH EASIER FOR YOU.........
PHYLLIS. Well, it was easier. But when we had to take the milk ourselves it was a terrible job.......driving it in three times a week.
KATE. SO ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOLDED. ALL THE LITTLE BUTTER FACTORIES ALL RETRACTED BACK TO BEGA. DID PAMBULA SHUT?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Pambula eventually shut. See, we were sending our milk in ten gallon milk cans and then they put the tankers on and then eventually they put tankers on all the runs. And then they wouldn't come out here with the tankers so we had to fold up the dairy.
KATE. THAT WAS A BIT ROUGH WASN'T IT? ALL THOSE ANIMALS STILL PRODUCING AND THEN EVERYTHING JUST STOPS.
PHYLLIS. And years ago, it didn't matter how much. If you had an abundance, they took it, if you only had a gallon, they took the gallon.
KATE. SO THEY TOOK WHATEVER YOU PRODUCED. NO QUOTAS.
PHYLLIS. No. There was no 'you give me so many gallons of milk each month or you're out'. There was none of that.
KATE. SO TAKING THAT AWAY LED TO THIS AREA GOING BACKWARDS.
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. WORSE THAN THE RABBITS.
PHYLLIS. It was a big drop in the income around here. When the authorities stepped in and did all that it was worse than the rabbits.
KATE. UP-GRADING WOULD HAVE PUT SOME DAIRIES OUT OF BUSINESS EARLY ON, THEN THE BUTTER FACTORIES CLOSING AND THE TRUCKS NOT WANTING TO COME OUT HERE, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FINAL BLOW, I SUPPOSE......SO THEN THEY WENT INTO GRAZING.....NOW BACK TO YOUR MILK RUN........
PHYLLIS. Well, when we closed the dairy, you couldn't buy milk or anything at the shop. Any dairy products at all at the shop. And they were all saying, 'What will we do for milk?' 'Cause, we still had a few cows that were still in milk. I said, oh, well, I would milk those cows and they could have the milk. That's what I did and then it grew and grew and grew! If anybody came into the town or into the valley and they'd go to the store for milk, well, the lady would say, 'Go and see Phyllis.' And then it grew up to I was milking twenty-three cows, by hand.
KATE. YOURSELF?
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE YOU? THEY WOULDN'T WANT ANY MILK FOR BREAKFAST!
PHYLLIS. No! I had the children to get off to school before I could.....because I was doing it down there ('Parkside') and I had to go from up here to down there. Then I'd have to get the cows in because they were all out over the paddocks and after the '71 flood, that took all the fences and everything down and there was no paddocks. There was only the boundary fence. You didn't know where the cows would be and I had to find them and get them in. And sometimes they'd come home and sometimes they wouldn't.
KATE. SO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO MILK TWENTY-SEVEN COWS?
PHYLLIS. Well, it doesn't take that long, I suppose, when you come to think of it. I used to finish up about twelve o'clock. Sometimes a little bit later.
KATE. SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN YOUR MAIN JOB. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN ONCE......THAT WOULDN'T BE TWICE A DAY....
PHYLLIS. No. I didn't do it twice a day. I couldn't because I had the children.
KATE. SO THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A CALF ON THEM.
PHYLLIS. Yes. They used to have their calves. I used to go down there of a night time and lock the calves up.
KATE. SO YOU'D BE FOUR HOURS MILKING COWS. THEN HOW WOULD YOU CART ALL THE MILK?
PHYLLIS. I used to put it in the back of the car, in the boot. It was in bottles. We used to have the flagons. Everybody would supply their own flagons.
KATE. SO YOU'D MILK INTO A BUCKET THEN POUR IT INTO THE FLAGONS........
PHYLLIS. Into the vat and strain it. It had to be strained.
KATE. HOW MUCH WERE YOU CHARGING FOR THIS LABOUR?
PHYLLIS. Oh, about twenty cents.
KATE. TWENTY CENTS FOR.......
PHYLLIS. Half a gallon of milk.
KATE. THAT'S EIGHT PINTS? SO ABOUT FOUR LITRES OR SO. THAT'S NOT MUCH.
PHYLLIS. It was all right in those days.
KATE. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH IT THEN? YOU TOOK IT AROUND....
PHYLLIS. I delivered it around as I was coming home. Took a detour around and over to the shop and over to Dalton's place and down to Lucy's (Macey. 'Nereman') Rollo was working at the cannery (Heinz tuna cannery in Eden) then and he used to take it down in the morning and leave it on the gate post on the way to work. When Sally's (Mirams) cows would go dry we used to take it out and leave it there. We used to have a time and I'd take it out and she'd come out and pick it up.
KATE. SO YOU WERE THE MILK PERSON.
PHYLLIS. (laughter) Yes, that's right. Until about '79 or '80 I think it was because it went into drought then and it was that dry the cows didn't have any milk and I just couldn't go on and I couldn't keep the supply up no matter what you do, it's not the same as the grass.
KATE. I CAME AT THE BEGINNING OF '82 AND ALL I COULD BUY AT THE SHOP WAS BAGS OF HARD WHITE SUGAR AND FROZEN CARTONS OF MILK.
PHYLLIS. I gave it up at the beginning of '80, I think.
KATE. WERE KELLERS HERE THEN?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Because they used to get milk as well.
KATE. SO WHO WERE THE OLDIES AROUND THEN WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED DOING THE MILK RUN?
PHYLLIS. Mrs. McLeod, she was still here. She lived in Sinclair's place. Laurie Beasley next to Matthews' place. And Jack, (Beasley) up the top at his place. Arthur (Beasley) was behind Matthews' and old Charlie Laing, he was down at Macey's, ('Nereman') Darcy Parker and old Stanley Parker.
KATE. HE LIVED IN THE HOUSE OPPOSITE ORMAN'S CORN SHED?
PHYLLIS. That's right.
KATE. WAS THAT HOUSE STILL THERE WHEN YOU CAME?
PHYLLIS. Yes. And Ben, Ben Beasley.
KATE. HEATHER (MATTHEWS) MENTIONED ATHOL GREER AND BOB.
PHYLLIS. Yes. They were brothers.
KATE. WHAT WERE THEY LIKE. I MEAN, THEY WERE AT THE END OF AN ERA, WEREN'T THEY?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Well, they were and they were.....what would you say ........sometimes they would be back in their own era and sometimes they'd be forwards. You know what I mean? And....well, you take Jack Beasley, he wouldn't drive anything else, only ride a horse. Laurie would never learn to drive but he would go for a drive. But Jack wouldn't, he would sometimes, but he wasn't keen on getting into a car. (laughter) Nothing pleased him more than to get the little ones and take them for a ride on his horse.
KATE. HE NEVER MARRIED.
PHYLLIS. No.
KATE. THERE WERE A LOT OF BACHELORS.
PHYLLIS. Oh, there were a lot. Yes.
KATE. IT WAS A SHAME REALLY, WASN'T IT?
PHYLLIS. Old Jack Mac, he was here.....
KATE. WHO WAS JACK MAC?
PHYLLIS. Jack McDonald. He lived in the place opposite the sports ground. He was a funny old fellow.
KATE. HE WAS WALTER McDONALD'S BROTHER?
PHYLLIS. Yes. He looked after his mum and dad.
KATE. WHO WERE THEY? WERE THEY STILL LIVING UP THERE?
PHYLLIS. No. Not when I came here. He had died years before and she had just gone to Sydney to live with her daughter.
KATE. WAS HE DONALD McDONALD?
PHYLLIS. I'm not sure because anybody talking about them, they were always Mr.and Mrs. McDonald. Old Mr. McDonald and old Mrs. McDonald. I did meet her and knew her. She was a lovely old lady. All the hardship and things that she went through, she was still a lady. And I think that's why everybody used to call her Mrs. McDonald.
KATE. IT WAS RESPECT.
PHYLLIS. Yes. Poor old Jack Mac, he used to lock himself in. All these locks on the door and on the windows.
KATE. WHY?
PHYLLIS. Well, he had this phobia that someone was going to break in.
KATE. AND HE WAS ON HIS OWN? HE DIDN'T MARRY?
PHYLLIS. No. And the wind came one day and blew the slabs out of the side of the house. And you'd go in there and he'd have all the windows and doors locked up with this hole in the wall! And the hole was there for ages.
KATE. BIG ENOUGH TO GET THROUGH.
PHYLLIS. Yes. It was there until the cold made him fix it up. But you'd go in there of a night time and he say wait till I unlock the door. He'd take all these locks undone.
KATE. DID HE LOOK AFTER HIMSELF?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Yes, he did. And the place was spotless. It was spotless. It was lovely. He was lovely and clean and his windows were always clean.
KATE. WHAT DID PEOPLE LIKE HIM DO ALL DAY?
PHYLLIS. He used to walk a lot. He'd walk around prospecting for gold anywhere. He'd be up in the mountains.......
KATE. HE WASN'T THE ONE WITH THE PUSH BIKE?
PHYLLIS. Yes.....
KATE. PETER MATTHEWS SAID HE USED TO PICK THIS OLD FELLOW UP AND DROP HIM OFF AT STONEY CREEK AND HE'D GO OFF INTO THE HILLS PROSPECTING.
PHYLLIS. Yes. That would be him. And he used to gather up all these unusual stones and send them to Sydney to be analysed. But there was nothing that unusual about them.
KATE. SO HOW OLD WOULD HE HAVE BEEN?
PHYLLIS. He was in his eighties when he died. Probably in his middle seventies then.
KATE. THEY WERE PRETTY FIT, THE OLDIES?
PHYLLIS. Yes. They were.
KATE. I INTERVIEWED PAT MILES, SHE WAS A RELIEF AMBULANCE DRIVER IN EDEN IN THE MID '50's AND '60's. SHE SAID THE PEOPLE OUT HERE WERE ALL SLIM, FIT, WIRY PEOPLE ........
PHYLLIS. Yes. Especially the men.
KATE. THE WOMEN WITH THEIR HAIR PARTED DOWN THE MIDDLE AND DRAWN BACK INTO A BUN. AND SHE SAID THEY GENERALLY DIED IN THEIR BEDS. AND THEY WERE FIT RIGHT UP INTO THEIR EIGHTIES.
PHYLLIS. And then they would just go to bed one night and not wake up.
KATE. WHAT A WAY TO GO!
PHYLLIS. Yes. That's true.
KATE. AND EVEN THOUGH THEY LIVED IN THE VILLAGE THEY WOULD HAVE HAD THEIR WOOD FIRES AND.........THE ELECTRICITY DIDN'T COME TILL LATE, DID IT?
PHYLLIS. No. It didn't come in here until 1963.
KATE. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER YOU CAME?
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. THAT'S ONLY THIRTY-SIX YEARS AGO!
PHYLLIS. Oh, but it's lovely!
KATE. I WAS TALKING TO SHIRLEY SPROATES (Sproates and Grant Interview) AND SHE WAS TELLING ME ABOUT THE VARIOUS METHODS YOU HAD OF KEEPING YOUR FOOD COLD.
PHYLLIS. The coldest one was the water safe. It had the water on top and it trickled down into the tray at the bottom. You had the water container on top and you put the water on top and it trickled down the side and......
KATE. ON THE OUTSIDE OF IT?
PHYLLIS. Yes. But it was wire gauze on the sides and that used to keep the hessian away. If the wind blew it didn't blow the hessian on the food. You had the top with the water container on it and then underneath it you had this little drain around the back where the water used to trickle down into it. Then it would seep down. Then underneath that little drain you'd have hessian or jute bags, potato bags, you'd just keep that around the sides and pin it on with
tacks, all the way around the sides and the water used to come down into the sack and it kept that sopping wet. When the breeze blew, that would keep whatever was inside, cool.
KATE. SO YOU'D HAVE TO KEEP FILLING UP THE WATER CONTAINER.
PHYLLIS. Yes. And the water used to come down into the tray at the bottom and you'd take the tray out and pour it back in to the top again.
KATE. THAT WAS SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE TO WATCH THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
PHYLLIS. Yes. It was just part of your day.
KATE. WAS IT A SLOW PROCESS, THAT WATER GOING DOWN.
PHYLLIS. Yes, it was. About every three hours. If you wanted it to be continuous.
KATE. AND YOU'D HAVE THAT OUT ON THE VERANDA?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Anywhere you wanted it.
KATE. BUT NOT INSIDE?
PHYLLIS. No. Not inside because you wouldn't get the breeze. In a hall, where you'd have the front door open and the back door open and the breeze would come through, you'd have it in there. But usually it would be out on the veranda. They were all right. But sometimes it would be, 'Oh, the safe's out of water!' and the bag would be dry and you'd have to top it up and stay there until the bag was all wet again. Because it would take a lot of water. Not as good as a fridge though!
KATE. BUT IF THAT'S ALL YOU HAD........
PHYLLIS. Yes! It did the job. Well, it would never keep the butter hard.
KATE. DID THE BUTTER YOU MADE ACT DIFFERENTLY TO THE BUTTER YOU GET NOW?
PHYLLIS. Yes, I think it does. I think our home made butter is........oh......
KATE. MORE SOLID OR....
PHYLLIS. No. It was solid. No. I don't think it was more solid.
KATE. NOT AS COMPACT.
PHYLLIS. Not as compact.
KATE. BECAUSE YOU DID IT BY HAND.....
PHYLLIS. And the water didn't all come out. So it wasn't as solid as the bought butter. And I think it used to melt quicker when you'd bring it out. So you'd never have really hard butter. It would be on the verge of going to oil. You wouldn't leave it on the table very long. You'd put it back in the safe.
KATE. AND YOU HAD YOUR MEAT IN BRINE?
PHYLLIS. In brine. Yes. In a barrel, in salt water with the lid on.
KATE. SO YOU'D CUT YOUR BEAST UP, IN LEGS AND SHOULDERS AND PUT THE PIECES IN.
PHYLLIS. Yes. You'd have your whole ribs and everything too. If you had a sheep, you'd put the whole ribs in whole. See, in those days there were more people, more families and you'd use a whole leg of mutton for a meal. And it wasn't one of those tiny little things you get today. It was hogget and it was a whole leg. A proper leg. You'd get one meal out of it and you'd be lucky if you got another meal out of it.
KATE. HOW WOULD YOU COOK THAT. WOULD YOU BOIL IT? COULD YOU ROAST A CORNED LEG?
PHYLLIS. Oh, yes. You can roast it if you want to. It doesn't taste any different. Perhaps a bit more salty. You'd soak it in water before you cooked it to get some of the salt out. Soak it over night. We didn't mind. We ate it. It was nice to get a bit of fresh meat though.
KATE. I SUPPOSE WHEN YOU KILLED A BEAST YOU'D HAVE A FRESH PIECE.
PHYLLIS. Oh, my word!
KATE. DID YOU GET BAGS OF SALT?
PHYLLIS. Yes. The rock salt.
KATE. HOW MUCH SALT WOULD YOU PUT INTO THE BARREL?
PHYLLIS. I couldn't tell you.
KATE. HOW LONG COULD THE MEAT STAY IN THE BARREL?
PHYLLIS. Oh, six months or more.
KATE. THAT LONG! SO YOU'D HAVE NO PROBLEMS ABOUT KEEPING YOUR MEAT?
PHYLLIS. No. There were no problems keeping it. But once you opened it, well, there were problems then.
KATE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, OPEN IT?
PHYLLIS. Well, you used to put it in the cask and put the lid on it.
KATE. SO IT WAS SEALED? AIR TIGHT SEAL?
PHYLLIS. Yes. So once you opened the barrel you'd broken the seal.
KATE. SO FOR EACH BEAST YOU'D HAVE TO EMPTY OUT THE BARREL.......
PHYLLIS. Empty out the barrel, keep it and clean it.
KATE. DID ANYBODY EVER GET SICK?
PHYLLIS. I suppose they did but we wouldn't think of it. We wouldn't think it was that. In those days there was a lot of diarrhoea around.... gastric and things like that. People used to die of that. So you just couldn't pin point that. But, yes, when you think of it, well it could possibly have been that.
KATE. IF YOUR MEAT WAS VERY SALTY, WOULD YOU TASTE THAT IT WASN'T QUITE RIGHT?
PHYLLIS. Maybe not. I mean, you wouldn't waste it. You couldn't waste it. You depended on that for a meal.
KATE. I WAS TALKING TO LEO (FARRELL) AND HE SAID THEY HAD A BARREL BETWEEN THE TANK STAND AND THE SHED WHERE IT WAS ALWAYS IN SHADE AND THEY HAD THEIR MEAT IN THAT AND I HAD THIS IMPRESSION OF THIS OAK BARREL THAT HAD BITS OF BODY FLOATING IN IT AND THEY JUST TOOK BITS OUT AND PUT ANOTHER PIECE IN AS THEY WANTED IT. BUT OF COURSE, IT WASN'T LIKE THAT.
PHYLLIS. No. Not really. But I think there would have been some people who would do that sort of thing. If it wasn't covered properly you'd have trouble with flies and all sorts of vermin. Mould and mice and that. And snakes!
KATE. THEY MUST HAVE HAD STRONG CONSTITUTIONS.
PHYLLIS. Yes. I think as they grew older, yes they did have very strong constitutions but it was the little ones that didn't have the constitution and they were the ones that suffered more from that sort of thing. But yes, as they grew up they had cast iron tummies.
KATE. I SUPPOSE, APART FROM SALT THERE WEREN'T MANY OTHER PRESERVATIVES. NOW SALT IS BAD FOR YOU, SO THEY SAY. ALL THAT MEAT, THEY SAY NOT TO EAT SO MUCH MEAT, AND FAT, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CUT THE FAT OUT....
PHYLLIS. But you look at the fat that is still on a lamb.....
KATE. WOULD YOU HAVE HAD THAT MUCH ON YOUR MEAT?
PHYLLIS. Oh, yes. We used to eat all that.
KATE. AND HOME MADE BUTTER WHICH WAS FULL OF FAT AND OIL. DID YOU EVER MAKE YOUR OWN CHEESE?
PHYLLIS. Yes. We used to make cheese. More cottage cheese.
KATE. WAS THAT FROM WHOLE MILK?
PHYLLIS. Yes. They used to let the milk go sour and put it in a cheese cloth and let all the whey and everything drain from it and then they used to knead it until it went into a hard ball and put in a little bit of salt or whatever flavour you wanted in it and then it would go into a hard ball and that would be your cheese.
KATE. WHAT DID IT TASTE LIKE?
PHYLLIS. Oh, it was quite nice. We used to do lots of things with it. We'd cut it up and fry it in fat, mutton fat, (laughter) but they were never light on the hand with fat.
KATE. I USED TO RENDER DOWN MY OWN FAT FROM A BEAST AND KEEP IT.
PHYLLIS. And put it in the oven, and all of the kidney fat. Put it in the oven and render it all down. If you burnt it, well you'd have to cut up potatoes then and put in it to clarify it again.
KATE. REALLY!
PHYLLIS. Yes. Cut the potato up and put it in the fat. It would take all the burnt flavour from it. It would still be a dirty colour but it would take all that burnt flavour out.
KATE. DID YOU HAVE YOUR OWN COUGH MEDICINES AND POTIONS FOR DIARRHOEA AND THINGS LIKE THAT?
PHYLLIS. Well, there was always castor oil. (laughter) You see, that was the idea of it was to have castor oil and it would flush you out. Empty you all out. Then doing that would take the germ and everything with it.
KATE. YOUR MOTHER WOULD HAVE HAD HOME REMEDIES.
PHYLLIS. Yes. We used to have lime water ......
KATE. FROM THE FRUIT OR THE MINERAL?
PHYLLIS. From the mineral and put the quick lime or the ordinary lime in the water. If it was quick lime then you'd wait until it stopped fizzing. Put the boiling water in on top of it and wait until....oh, a couple of days and then tip the water off it and give us the water to drink.
KATE. WHAT WAS THAT FOR?
PHYLLIS. Pains in the tummy or anything like that.
KATE. SO SHE'D HAVE A STORE OF THAT IN A BOTTLE.
PHYLLIS. Yes. We had molasses. That was another one.
KATE. WHAT WAS MOLASSES FOR?
PHYLLIS. Oh, well, that was just for good well-being.
KATE. WAS THAT A WEEKLY DOSE?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Every week. Then it got down to once a month.
KATE. AS YOU GOT OLDER?
PHYLLIS. No. I think as the medical profession came into being. We didn't use it as much.
KATE. WAS IT SUBSTITUTED?
PHYLLIS. No. No, it wasn't. There was castor oil, senna tea and Epsom salts.
KATE. WHAT WAS THE SENNA TEA FOR?
PHYLLIS. Well, now that was for....if we got cranky or a bit despondent, wouldn't do our work or grizzled well, you'd end up with one of those three! (laughter)
KATE. THE CURE-ALL.
PHYLLIS. They were suppose to make you feel better. And we had sulphur. That yellow sulphur? We used to eat that.
KATE. IN WHAT WAY DID YOU EAT IT?
PHYLLIS. Well, you could have it in any way. You could just eat it but my mother used to mix it with treacle or golden syrup and a spoonful, a tea spoon full of sulphur and a dessert spoon full of golden syrup.
KATE. SO WHAT WAS THE SULPHUR SUPPOSED TO DO?
PHYLLIS. Well, that was to clean your blood. I don't know whether it did, but if you had boils or school sores...if you had that well, that's what you would get, sulphur. Because all that was suppose to be in your blood. Clean the blood and then that would go.
KATE. IT WAS A WONDER YOU SURVIVED!
PHYLLIS. Yes. We ate it! We had to.
KATE. EVERY MOTHER WOULD BE A HOME NURSE ANYWAY.
PHYLLIS. Yes. They would have to be.
KATE. THAT WOULD BE PART OF YOUR LIFE AS A HOUSEWIFE WITH CHILDREN TO KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR MEDICINE CABINET.
PHYLLIS. That's right. And there were no stitches.
KATE. SO WHEN YOU CAME OUT HERE IN THE EARLY SIXTIES WAS THE DOCTOR STILL COMING OUT TO THE WINE SALOON?
PHYLLIS. No. That had finished.
KATE. SO YOU'D BE OFF TO BEGA TO THE DOCTOR.
PHYLLIS. Yes. Well, there was no doctor in Eden. You either had to go to Pambula, Merimbula or Bega. For us, it was easier to go to Bega because everything was there and you could do it all in the one trip. And of course, Bega was your main centre. It was your business centre, so that's where you went. And then there were a few doctors started up in Eden.....
well we never went down there but people around used to go down there and it was really nice but then.....if you were pregnant and you were going there through your pregnancy, you'd only get to perhaps three or four months and they'd pack up and go to Bega. They didn't stay in Eden long....until Dr.Ahmed came. He came then he went and then he came back and started his own practice. He stayed and he was the first real resident doctor in Eden. There was only one bank in Eden too. And it was only open so many days per week. And they used to shut for lunch. Everything shut down for lunch. They used to do that in Eden right up until the chip mill got going. That's what really got the place going.
KATE. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO PAINT THE PICTURE? ANY FUNNY HAPPENINGS OR TRAGIC ONES?
PHYLLIS. Arthur Beasley used to drink a bit. He'd wobble about a bit. But he was always pleasant. He was never cranky or anything and he worked up at Ron McPaul's. He was caretaker out at McPaul's and he used to ride his horse down here and he'd be wobbling. It was just down here that he fell off and the horse just stood there until he climbed back on again. Then if you passed him you could hear him, when he wobbled, go 'Whoops!' But he was always pleasant. He'd say, 'How are you, Mrs.Rolly.'
KATE. WAS THAT COMMON THEN? THE DRINKING.
PHYLLIS. No. There was only a few of them. Jack Beasley used to drink in his younger days but he used to get so cranky and he'd fight everybody, anyway he got into this fight one time and he gave it up and he wouldn't drink. He'd have a little bit but not much. I always thought that was very.......brave of him. It must have been hard. Particularly when everyone else was there. And they all used to drink then. Then Charlie Laing, he was dreadful when he was drunk. He wasn't aggressive, he was just plain dirty.
KATE. ALF BEASLEY SAID HE WAS THE CLEANEST LOOKING PERSON WHEN HE WENT OFF TO THE PUB AND THE DIRTIEST LOOKING THING WHEN HE CAME HOME.
PHYLLIS. That's true. That's true. And when he got into that condition of a night time, he wouldn't go home. He wouldn't go into the house.
KATE. HE LIVED ON HIS OWN?
PHYLLIS. No. This was when his mum and dad were alive and he wouldn't go into that house. He'd sleep up in the bush anywhere on the coldest of nights. And when they (parents) went down to do the milking, he'd go inside and clean himself up before he presented himself to his mum and dad.
KATE. NOW HIS MUM AND DAD WERE DONALD AND.....
PHYLLIS. Donald and I forget her name.
KATE. DID HE EVER MARRY?
PHYLLIS. No. He didn't marry.
KATE. DID HE HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS?
PHYLLIS. He had a brother but he was drowned in the river down here somewhere.
KATE. CHARLIE DROWNED IN THE LAKE, DIDN'T HE?
PHYLLIS. Yes. And his brother drowned down here in what they used to call the 'black hole.'
KATE. WHERE ABOUTS WAS THAT?
PHYLLIS. Down there where Ormans are.
KATE. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
PHYLLIS. Well, they say that he came home from school one day, one hot day, and of course, they used to walk from there and across the river to home. And it was one hot afternoon and he stripped off and went in to the pool and he got cramps. They said it was a deep hole and as he went down, it was really cold and they said he went in to cramps.
KATE. WAS HE ON HIS OWN?
PHYLLIS. I don't know. Charlie would never speak about it. If the subject came up he'd gloss over it. He wouldn't say very much about it. Yes, it was a tragedy.
KATE. IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE ANY DEEP HOLES IN THE RIVER NOW.
PHYLLIS. Well, that was deep up until the last big flood in '78. And ever since then it's just silted in.
KATE. YOUR KIDS ALL WENT TO SCHOOL HERE?
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. WAS THE WINE SALOON STILL GOING WHEN YOU CAME HERE?
PHYLLIS. Yes. It was about 1969 or '73 when it stopped. Oh, there was a big fight over there one Saturday afternoon and two fellows fought all through the house and ended up in the bathroom. It was lined with that shiny masonite .......you know that stuff with the glaze over it.....and one put his fist through the wall. Well, that upset both Topsy and Darcy and
later they closed it down. But it wasn't doing much good. It was only just kept going .........
KATE. FOR THE LOCALS?
PHYLLIS. Well, not even for the locals. I think they just kept it going for tradition's sake. And you could get lemonade....that was the only place you could get lemonade.
KATE. THERE STILL WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MUCH COMPETITION WITH THE SHOP.......
PHYLLIS. No. There were no drinks or anything like that in the shop. That came after. Soft drinks .....you couldn't get soft drinks there.
KATE. SO IF YOU WANTED ANYTHING LIKE THAT, YOU'D GET IT AT THE WINE SHOP. WAS TOPSY A BIT OF A CHARACTER?
PHYLLIS. She was unusual, yes.
KATE. I WAS TALKING TO SALLY MIRAMS AND SHE SAID THAT TOPSY USED TO GO DOWN TO THE SHOP TO GET THE MAIL IN HER HIGH HEEL SHOES AND LITTLE APRON.
PHYLLIS. Yes, that's right. But see, that's what she was used to and with me it wouldn't have been anything unusual. You wouldn't go down to the shop in the apron you had on in the morning. You'd change for a clean apron.
KATE. THE SHOP WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FOCAL POINT OF THE VILLAGE, EVEN AFTER YOU CAME HERE?
PHYLLIS. Yes. It was the central point. And then the mail would come in and they used to shut for half an hour until they sorted the mail and everybody would be out on the veranda there .........
KATE. HAVING A GOOD CHAT.
PHYLLIS. Yes. That was where your social.........they used to get down there a bit before three o'clock, before the mail got in....it was three o'clock and then it got on to four....you'd go on down there, that was when Parker's had it, and you'd go down a bit earlier and you'd stay on the veranda and wait for the mail to come in and it was a big exciting event every day! They would take the bags in and shut the shop and the post office until they sorted all the mail, and then open it up. You see, you'd have half an hour there talking and finding out what's happening.
KATE. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE TOWAMBA HALL? DID SOMEONE DONATE THE MONEY?
PHYLLIS. I heard that Ira Parker built it himself with his own money.
KATE. I HEARD THAT SOMEONE WON THE LOTTERY AND DONATED THE MONEY.
PHYLLIS. Well, that could have been him, or his mother. His mother had the shop before him. Mrs.Ambrose Parker, she had the shop before Ira.
KATE. DARCY WHO HAD THE WINE SALOON........
PHYLLIS. That was the brother. Brother of Ira. Ambrose was their father. There was three boys, Darcy, Ira and Stanley. Well, that could be right. I think now that could have been Mrs.Ambrose....it could have been her that had the win in Tatts and I think perhaps that's what she bought the shop with........
KATE. OH, ROBINSONS HAD IT. PERCE ROBINSON'S FAMILY HAD IT. I SPOKE TO HIM YEARS AGO. HE WAS THERE WHEN THE BRIDGE WAS WASHED AWAY IN THE 1919 FLOOD AND HE SAID HE HEARD THIS ALMIGHTY CRACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHEN IT WAS WASHED AWAY.
PHYLLIS. I can't be sure about that but I think she had the win and then she bought the shop off Robinsons. (Interviewer's note: Mrs. Ambrose Parker won 5,000 pounds in a lottery in 1933. The Parker's were already owners of the shop.)
KATE. ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN REMEMBER?
PHYLLIS. The children walking to school. There used to be a lot of them walking down here. (The South's farm, 'Oakleigh' is about two and a half kilometers outside the village.)
KATE. OR RODE?
PHYLLIS. Well, they were walking in '61.
KATE. DID YOURS WALK?
PHYLLIS. No. We had the subsidy then.
KATE. WHAT WAS THAT?
PHYLLIS. We took them to school. If you were over two miles from the school. That only came in later. But they were still walking in '61. And then they were ready for high school and they just disappeared. There were quite a few of them. There were Joy Alexander's children from the Station. ('Pericoe Station') I forget her married name. Martin! Well, there were her two boys, they had to walk.
KATE. FROM 'PERICOE STATION'?
PHYLLIS. Yes.
KATE. THAT'S SIX MILES! THAT WOULD TAKE THEM AGES. WHAT TIME WOULD THEY START OUT?
PHYLLIS. Early! But she used to drive them to school sometimes and sometimes they'd walk down. And they'd meet up with the Love's, that was Wayne and Kathleen, from 'Elmgrove', and walk in. There were quite a few that did that.
KATE. I SUPPOSE THEY WERE COMPANY FOR ONE ANOTHER.
PHYLLIS. There were Rufie Lucas' children. He used to live at 'Daisy Hill'. There were two from there. So that was six of them. Joy would say they could walk home so far and she would drive and meet them.
KATE. I SUPPOSE THEY WOULDN'T THINK ANYTHING OF IT.
PHYLLIS. No. Because that's what you did. That's the way it was. I used to drive my children to school every morning and pick them up every afternoon until the bus started. And that was good. There were three from the Station, three Greens there were from the Station, two McPaul's .......
KATE. THIS IS 'PERICOE STATION'?
PHYLLIS. Yes. Then some of the Mirams', but they came later. There was a family, Garland, that moved into 'Elmgrove' who were here for a few years. They had eight. They used to rent it. That was when Mrs.Love moved into Eden. Towamba has changed a lot. Its grown. As in people.
KATE. YES. THE NEW PEOPLE OUTWEIGH THE OLDIES NOW.
PHYLLIS. Yes. That's right. When I came here all the oldies were going. There was only a few of the old generation left. They either died or moved away.

AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS.