INTERVIEW WITH ROWLAND (Rollo) SOUTH born 1919 in Sydney.
INTERVIEW DATE: July 17th, 1998

Rollo South came to the area in 1932 with his parents who took up a lease at 'Squirrel's Flat' near 'Nungatta Station'. His family later share-farmed at Pericoe on a dairy owned by the Alexander family on 'Pericoe Station'. They were burnt out in the 1939 fire but remained in Towamba and continued dairying. Rollo had his own dairy farm when new health regulations were imposed on dairies by the health department. These regulations were unviable for most small dairies and many ceased production causing the small butter factories around the district to close, removing a vital source of income for the valley people.

KATE. WHEN DID YOU FIRST COME TO TOWAMBA?
ROLLO. Well, we left Sydney on Boxing day in 1931 and arrived here late January in 1932.
KATE. HOW OLD WERE YOU?
ROLLO. Twelve years old, coming up thirteen. Dad had taken the lease that was known as 'Squirrel's Flat' lease. That was the bottom end of 'Nungatta Station'. Things didn't work out, it was all overgrown, then we came back to Alexander's (Pericoe) and we were share farming there.
KATE. WHAT DID YOUR DAD WANT TO DO AT 'SQUIRREL'S FLAT'? DID HE WANT TO GRAZE OR DAIRY....
ROLLO. He wanted to graze...run stock. There was seventeen hundred acres in it. It was all overgrown. So, without going into a lot of detail, that was just finalised up. That was let go. We came into Alexander's ....Alf Alexander's was coming up for share-farming...
KATE. THAT'S 'PERICOE STATION'?
ROLLO. Yes. And we were there just on the twelve months. And 'Daisy Hill' then, came up for lease, where Colin Veness was living, up there, at the back of 'Elmgrove', and so we took that on....Dad took that on then. Fred Orman was in partnership with him.
KATE. WAS HE ONE OF THE ORMANS WHO LIVED IN TOWAMBA?
ROLLO. Yes. He was David Orman's father. Dad took that out in '33, that was just on six years we were on the place. In the '39 fire we lost everything ........house and everything.
KATE. WAS THAT THE SAME TIME.....WILF INGRAM'S PARENTS WERE
THERE ....
ROLLO. And they lost their home and all their stock. We saved almost all of our stock.
KATE. SO ALL THE STOCK WAS BURNT AS WELL?
ROLLO. Yes. Wilfred Ingram lost all his stock, all the horses, except the two horses they rode out on ahead of the fire....they lost everything. Unlike ourselves, they only had what they wore. That wasn't much because it was hot. Dad went back to Sydney working and went wool classing and in the war years he worked for a Federal company, the military took over all the main companies. I stayed on here, just odd jobbing around.
KATE. DID YOU GO BACK TO SCHOOL?
ROLLO. No. I didn't go back to school. We was twelve months out there, then I was fourteen and I went straight to work. I missed my education. So, that was what Dad did, then....when the war finished, he went wool classing and then he was herd recording, he did that in the Bega surrounding districts.
KATE. WHAT WAS YOUR DAD'S CONNECTION WITH THIS AREA? DID HE COME FROM THIS AREA ORIGINALLY?
ROLLO. No, but he did manage 'Nungatta Station' and that's how he knew of the lease.
KATE. HOW LONG DID HE MANAGE THAT FOR?
ROLLO. That was before I was born. I just don't know, it could have been three, four years. When we arrived here, all freight, all goods came down by the boat. I think it was Jack Beasley or Jim Beasley brought the last loads by horse wagon...
KATE. FROM THE COAST?
ROLLO. From Eden. And the lorries took over....as they were called in those days....lorries, not trucks.
KATE. DID THEY HAVE TO DO THE ROADS UP A LOT FOR THE TRUCKS.
ROLLO. No. That was still a good solid road right through there. Yes, that was a good solid road. It was upgraded just before we come and it would take vehicles. Prior to that, it was terrible to get a vehicle through. Dad spoke about it. From Towamba to get through to 'Nungatta Station' was a day's work. You had to carry shovels, mattocks and axes....
KATE. LIKE YOU HAVE TO CARRY A CHAINSAW TODAY.
ROLLO. Yes. Their main outlet was out through Rockton, out through Bombala from 'Nungatta Station'. Now, to go back to the freighting...the boat run right up to the outbreak of war. That's when it ceased. But the freight had started to come in by trucks prior to that.
KATE. WHICH WAY DID THE FREIGHT COME......FROM SYDNEY OR MELBOURNE?
ROLLO. From Sydney. All down from Sydney.
KATE. DID THEY COME DOWN THE OLD HIGHWAY TO EDEN?
ROLLO. Yes. Down the old highway. It used to come down in sections. They'd bring it so far then they'd off load and then go on again. Instead of the one truck bringing the one load right through, they'd off load on to other trucks and whatever destination it had to go.
KATE. THAT HIGHWAY WASN'T SEALED, WAS IT?
ROLLO. No, it wasn't sealed.
KATE. WHAT WAS FARMED HERE THEN. WAS THERE A LOT OF CORN GROWN...
ROLLO. Well, in those days there was a lot of corn grown on the river flats, dairying.....
KATE. WAS THAT CORN FOR CATTLE, OR....
ROLLO. Kelloggs used to take the ...white corn it was called and that was grown for Kelloggs. They used to come and get all their corn from the Towamba valley in those days.
KATE. WERE THERE A LOT OF DAIRIES AROUND HERE THEN?
ROLLO. Nearly everyone dairied in those times.
KATE. WHAT WAS THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF COWS THAT YOU WOULD MILK BY HAND?
ROLLO. Twenty to thirty-five. That's a family. There was Dick Brownlie ('Towamba Station') he milked his seventeen to twenty-five cows, up here, Ramsey ('Hillview') he dairied about his twenty-five cows and run sheep besides. Then there was 'Elmgrove' that was Love's, they milked up to one hundred cows.
KATE. SO HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD THEY HAVE MILKING?
ROLLO. That was a big family.
KATE. SO HOW MANY COWS COULD ONE PERSON MILK.....
ROLLO. You'd average out eight cows each hour.
KATE. WHAT TYPE WERE THEY. JERSEY?
ROLLO. Yes. Mostly Jersey. Grey Jersey. And Shorthorn cross. And there was Freddie McPaul, where Ronnie McPaul is ('Rosebank') they milked up to ninety to one hundred cows there. Then there was Eltons, they milked seventeen to twenty cows.
KATE. THE PASTURE MUST HAVE BEEN A LOT BETTER THAN IT IS NOW......
ROLLO. Well, places have overgrown. Different areas have overgrown. But in those times a lot of Saccaline was grown as extra feed and the corn.....if you weren't selling the corn, you'd grow it for your own use. Then there was the pigs, the separated milk was used for the pigs just to top them off.
KATE. SO YOU HAD YOUR COWS GOING, YOU FED THE MILK TO YOUR PIGS, YOU GREW CORN FOR KELLOGGS AND A BIT FOR YOUR COWS AND SACCALINE AND THE PASTURE....
ROLLO. Mainly Saccaline and corn was grown for your winter feed and Sudan grass and millet was grown for your summer crops and oats for the winter crops, not so much barley, there used to be some barley grown and some wheat grown but it was mainly oats for winter cropping.
KATE. YOUR MOTHER THEN, SHE MADE HER OWN BREAD..... LIGHTING THE COPPER AND BOILING UP THE WASHING....
ROLLO. When the tanks run dry you went to the creek.....then there was the 'One Mile' that was Alexander's, about one mile from 'Pericoe Station' there was the Arnold's there, they milked about sixty, seventy cows, and there was the home farm that we shared on for just on twelve months...
KATE. WAS THAT ITS NAME?
ROLLO. Yes, it was called the 'Home Farm'.
KATE. WHERE WAS THAT?
ROLLO. That was across the creek from where the old house is....
KATE. 'PERICOE STATION'?
ROLLO. Yes. Across the creek. It's gone now...all covered with pines now. Then there was 'Hayfield' they milked forty, fifty cows there. So when you think back it was mainly dairying in those times. And you run a few sheep or a few head of stock extra. We dairied on 'Daisy Hill' when we went there. We were milking up to thirty-five cows, run two to three hundred sheep, and other dry stock, steers...
KATE. SO YOU'D HAVE SOME ONE WHO WOULD COME AND COLLECT THE MILK?
ROLLO. Eric Arnold had the run from Pericoe to the cream shed at Towamba. That was at the store there, just on Boller's corner there.
KATE. WAS THE BUTTER FACTORY GOING ON THE CORNER OF YOUR PLACE ('FERNY FLAT') WHEN YOU WERE HERE?
ROLLO. No, that had been closed down. They closed all the small factories down and made Pambula the centre. And there was a cheese factory out at Watson's place. That's going out to Letts Mountain.
KATE. THEY MADE CHEESE THERE?
ROLLO. Yes. They made cheese. The Watson's used to milk seventy to eighty Illawarra Shorthorns for the cheese mainly. I think there were a few others who supplied the milk to them, for the cheese.
KATE. SO WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE DAIRYING. DID THEY NOT WANT MILK FROM YOU ANY MORE? WHY DID THE DAIRYING STOP?
ROLLO. When they closed Pambula down, the Dairy Authority went around and closed all the small factories. There was Candelo, Wolumla and Pambula, Kameruka....they closed them down and made Bega the centre. Well, that closed all the dairying down.
KATE. WEREN'T THEY SHORT OF MILK?
ROLLO. They did become short of milk because they used to bring it over the border from Victoria.
KATE. SO THEY BROUGHT IT OVER THE BORDER RATHER THAN KEEP THE PEOPLE AROUND HERE SUPPLYING....
ROLLO. Yes. I naturally thought that they would have made Pambula or Candelo, the depot to pick up the milk. But they just closed it down and that was the finish of it.
KATE. WERE YOU COMPENSATED?
ROLLO. No.
KATE. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH ALL YOUR DAIRY HERDS?
ROLLO. Just left them there or they sold up. Oh, yes, they isolated these areas, small places, and ruined them. They wouldn't come and pick up our milk....
KATE. SO YOU COULD STILL MILK BUT TAKE YOUR OWN MILK TO THE
FACTORY.
ROLLO. We supplied them. We were the last dairy farmers in the district. When Fred Orman had the mail run, he had the milk run. He picked up the milk. He was going to put a tanker on but he didn't do it. Didn't continue, so we continued on then for about five months after that, taking our own milk in. But to take our own milk in and back again, that's five hours.
KATE. ALL THE WAY TO BEGA?
ROLLO. Yes. All the way to Bega. It just involved too much time.
KATE. BY THE TIME YOU GOT BACK YOU WOULD HAVE TO MILK AGAIN.
ROLLO. Yes. You were doing nothing else, just milking cows and delivering milk.
KATE. SO THEN THE AREA WENT OVER TO BEEF AND SHEEP AND PIGS? DID YOU STILL KEEP PIGS HAVING LESS MILK TO FEED THEM?
ROLLO. Yes. When Pambula folded, when they closed it down, well that was the end of the cream. So, pigs just faded straight out.
KATE. DID THEY HAVE A BACON FACTORY AT MERIMBULA?
ROLLO. Bacon factory, yes.
KATE. DID A LOT OF PEOPLE LEAVE THE AREA BECAUSE OF THIS?
ROLLO. The young generation, there was nothing left for them. They had to move out. That only left the old generation until they passed on. That's what had taken place.
KATE. SO THE HOUSES THAT GOT BURNT OUT, LIKE 'HAYFIELD' AND 'DAISY HILL'....
ROLLO. There was ourselves, Wilf (Ingram, 'Daisy Hill') got burnt out, Arnold's, they lost everything, they tried to save......they had a paddock ploughed along side the house and they thought....I don't remember how many they had there....they thought if the house went... they put all the furniture out on the ploughed ground and it even burnt on the ploughed ground. They still lost their furniture. That's with the timber being too close and as the gum tree burst into flames all the sparks would be sprayed out and carried out to all around it.
KATE. SO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO GOT BURNT OUT DIDN'T BOTHER REBUILDING? LIKE YOURSELVES , DID YOU....
ROLLO. The company Dad was leasing the property off, they wouldn't rebuild again, that left us....we could still have the place at the same rent with no home on it...(laughter). That terminated, that did.......In those times, too, we had our deliveries, the baker, when the vehicles came available, when times improved, they used to deliver the bread right out, round here. There were two bakers came in, Eden and Pambula.
KATE. DID THE HOUSEWIVES GET A LITTLE BIT UPSET THAT THIS BREAD WAS COMING IN FROM OUTSIDE?
ROLLO. Oh, no! They welcomed it! (laughter)
KATE. I SUPPOSE IT WAS A LITTLE LIKE THE WASHING MACHINES, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN WELCOMED.
ROLLO. Same as the butcher, they started a run.
KATE. SO YOU HAD A BUTCHER AS WELL...
ROLLO. I think it was three butchers at one stage was running through here.
KATE. WHAT WAS THE VILLAGE LIKE THEN? THEY HAD A BAKER, BUTCHER....
ROLLO. No. No. Only the two stores. The store where you are, that was Hartneady's....
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER GOING IN THERE?
ROLLO. Oh, yes, we shopped from both.
KATE. CAN YOU GIVE ME A PICTURE OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE?
ROLLO. The shop part was on the bottom side (west side) that was all pulled down. And the
blacksmith's shop was out, just out the back. I think that's where you've got the fowl coop now.
KATE. A BLACKSMITH'S SHOP? REALLY?
ROLLO. The stockyards and a big shed.....
KATE. WHEN I MOVED IN THERE WAS WHAT LOOKED LIKE THE REMAINS OF A STABLE, THE OLD ROUND TIMBER AND THE HALF DOORS AND THE LITTLE SHED THAT I THOUGHT WAS A CHOOK SHED.
ROLLO. Well, that's where it was because when the shop closed down, Jack McLeod, he married Thelda Hartneady, that was the old chap's daughter, and when he took over the house, he pulled all those buildings down. The old stock yards.....
KATE. WERE THE STOCKYARDS WITHIN MY BOUNDARY FENCE?
ROLLO. I think some went out on the flat. Must have been because of the size of them.
KATE. SO I HAD A BLACKSMITH'S SHOP IN MY BACK YARD! SO WHAT WAS IN THE REST OF MY HOUSE THEN? WAS THE BIG ROOM, THAT'S MY LOUNGE-ROOM NOW, WAS THAT THE BARBER SHOP?
ROLLO. Well, it's been all altered, Kate, that big room, it would have been only part of the floor of the shop.
KATE. JEFF (Knight, previous owner) SAID THAT WAS THE BARBER SHOP.
ROLLO. The barber was separate from the main shop. Now to go up to the shop, they had the steps up the front of it, may have been half a dozen steps went up, and then to go into the barber shop, you went on to the veranda where you go along as it is now, on the side veranda facing the church, you went in there for the barber shop.
KATE. THAT'S PROBABLY MY BEDROOM NOW.
ROLLO. I went in there a couple of times to have my hair cut. That was when Mother was away. Mother used to generally cut it. I was there a couple of times, Jack (McLeod) cut it.
KATE. WHAT DID THEY SELL THERE, EVERYTHING?
ROLLO. General, yes. Anything and everything. Yes, there wasn't much that you couldn't get. And then you could get credit for twelve months! (laughter)
KATE. TWELVE MONTHS! (laughter) WAS THERE MUCH COMPETITION BETWEEN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER AND HERE?
ROLLO. Oh, there was a fair bit.
KATE. SO YOU REMEMBER HARTNEADY HAVING THE STORE, THEN WHO HAD THE ONE OVER THE RIVER?
ROLLO. Ira's mother, Edie.
KATE. PARKER?
ROLLO. Yes.
KATE. DID ANYBODY HAVE THE STORE AFTER HARTNEADY? WAS IT A STORE AFTER HE LEFT?
ROLLO. Jack McLeod carried it on for a while but he couldn't compete against Parker's. But old Jack (Hartneady) could.
KATE. DO YOU REMEMBER YOUR PARENTS TALKING ABOUT YAMBULLA?
ROLLO. When we came back, all the batteries were all complete, everything was complete. Only the brass and copper had all been taken off the steam engine, that's all. You could turn the fly wheel over, it still had the belt on it and if you had the strength to turn the fly wheel over you could turn the hammers over, stamping hammers....
KATE. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER MY HOUSE CAME FROM OUT THERE? JACK BEASLEY TOLD ME IT DID.
ROLLO. I don't think so. Because what happened, Kate, when they shifted the first house
from out there, there was a family and two boys in that family went around and fired all the homes at Yambulla.
KATE. WHY?
ROLLO. So they wouldn't shift them.
KATE. I....WHAT DO YOU SAY?
ROLLO. It was the sister that told me. Their sister told me what they did. They couldn't stop them.
KATE. BUT THOSE HOMES WOULD HAVE BELONGED TO PEOPLE, WOULDN'T THEY?
ROLLO. Yes, they were homes and I think the people were just glad to give them away or even just to sell them as cheap as possible as long as they got something.
KATE. WHEN I SPOKE TO JACK (Beasley) HE SAID THEY BROUGHT SOME OF THE HOMES IN. THE BEDROOMS IN MY HOUSE HAD DOORS LEADING ON TO THE VERANDA AND NO DOORS INTO THE REST OF THE HOUSE. HE SAID THEY WERE HOTEL ROOMS. AND I THINK THEY PROBABLY WERE BECAUSE I STILL HAD A NUMBER 4 ON ONE OF THE DOORS. THEY STILL HAVE HOLES IN THE CEILING WITH TIN AROUND THE HOLE THAT I PRESUMED THE FLUE WENT THROUGH. HE SAID IT WAS TAKEN APART AND BROUGHT IN ON BULLOCK DRAYS FROM YAMBULLA.
ROLLO. Well that could have been one that I just mentioned. When they started to shift them that's what those two brothers did. I just don't know which store was first established. Whether it was Jack Hartneady or whether it was Martin.
KATE. JACK SAID THAT MY HOUSE, THE SHOP PART OF IT, CAME FROM OUT THERE. HE SAID IT WAS A STORE AND A JOE MIRADIAN OWNED IT. HIS NAME IS MENTIONED IN JACK LONEY'S BOOK 'YAMBULLA GOLD' BUT NOT AS OWNING THE STORE. JACK SAID THE SHOP PART WAS MY FRONT ROOM. YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT THE WOOD HAS BEEN TAKEN APART AND RE- ASSEMBLED. PARTS OF THE BOARDS HAVE FADED SECTIONS ON THEM LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN BEHIND SOMETHING.
ROLLO. Well that's what happened. I quite believe what the sister told me.
KATE. THAT'S INTERESTING.
ROLLO. That could have been the one that came in. I don't know of any others mentioned.
KATE. WERE THERE HOUSES ON BOLLER'S CORNER WHEN YOU WERE HERE, APART FROM THE GUEST HOUSE? APPARENTLY THERE WERE MORE HOUSES THERE. DALTON'S HOUSE WAS THE POST OFFICE......
ROLLO. Yes that was the post office.
KATE. WAS THAT AREA UP AND GOING WHEN YOU WERE HERE?
ROLLO. No. There was the hotel but it was burnt down.
KATE. A LOT OF BUILDINGS WERE BURNT DOWN, WEREN'T THEY? (laughter)
ROLLO. There was a blacksmith's shop there, there was the post office and the residence together, that's where Daltons are. Then, this way, (west) beside the river side, another blacksmith's shop was there.....
KATE. BETWEEN DALTON'S AND BOLLER'S THERE WAS A BLACKSMITH'S SHOP?
ROLLO. Yes. There was a big blacksmith's shop there. That was Andy Brown's.
KATE. AND THEN THE ROAD WENT FURTHER ON AND CROSSED THE RIVER...
ROLLO. Yes, where the stock reserve is.
KATE. I SUPPOSE IT WAS A BIT DICEY CROSSING THE RIVER THERE?
ROLLO. Yes it was.
KATE. SO THE RIVER WASN'T SO FULL OF SAND WHEN YOU WERE HERE FIRST?
ROLLO. Oh, no. I still remember the holes. The old bridge, you can see where the approach is (the cement ramp beside present bridge) we could ride underneath that on horseback, without bumping our heads; reach up and still not touch the girders underneath.
KATE. WOULD THAT BE TWENTY FEET OF SAND?
ROLLO. Oh, easy. It'd be easy twenty foot.
KATE. DID IT FILL UP QUICKLY....
ROLLO. Oh, just over ...they weren't heavy floods, just what we'd call flushes, coming down and filling them in. There was a nice deep hole where the bridge is now. That was a big hole there.
KATE. WHERE THERE TWO LITTLE GIRLS, OR ONE GIRL THAT DROWNED.....
ROLLO. That was down on 'Parkside'.
KATE. WHERE IS 'PARKSIDE'?
ROLLO. That's the place I have down on Roberts'. (down past where Moyna and Tom Price live) Yes, that's where the little girl was drowned.
KATE. WHO WAS SHE?
ROLLO. She could have been a Beasley, because the Beasley's, they leased the property from Roberts'. That was Ben Beasley's father, and they could have been there quite a number of years and I think it was a Beasley girl that was drowned there.
KATE. WHAT HAPPENED?
ROLLO. I think the child just wondered away. And of course the search was put out and by the time they found her, she'd found the water and drowned. And there was the fire....the bush fire at Pericoe when the Ryan girl was burnt. (See Maria McMahon interview)
KATE. DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE OLD CEMETERY ACROSS THE RIVER FROM 'NEREMAN'?
ROLLO. I was told there was ...Donald Laing told me who was buried there but I just don't remember now.
KATE. WAS BEN BEASLEY, JACK'S BROTHER?
ROLLO. No. I'll work that out for you Kate. George Beasley and Ben Beasley's father, they were brothers. So that makes them (Jack and Ben Beasley) cousins. Ben Beasley and Arthur Beasley, they were brothers. There was Ben, Arthur, Hampton, there was Tom....Herbie. There were a lot of them.
KATE. YOU GOT HERE IN THE 1930's
ROLLO. Yes. 1932.
KATE. WAS THERE A LOT OF SOCIAL LIFE?
ROLLO. There'd be the hall dance and there'd be the school dance, and they'd be the full thing. If you didn't have a partner, you didn't go.
KATE. BURRAGATE DIDN'T HAVE A CHURCH, DID IT?
ROLLO. No. They had a hall there.
KATE. SO THEY WOULD HAVE HAD CHURCH IN THE HALL.
ROLLO. Yes, they had a service in the hall.
KATE. IT MUST HAVE BEEN A BIT RUGGED FOR THE MINISTERS TO GET OUT HERE. WAS IT IN A HORSE AND BUGGY?
ROLLO. Yes. In a horse and buggy. The Catholics, they used to hold their church service at Roberts', in the house. Or at Charlie Roberts' where Edes's are. ('Riverview') They took it turn about.
KATE. THAT WAS BEFORE ISSY RYAN LIVED THERE.
ROLLO. Yes. Issy Ryan bought it, actually, off his son, Allan. Allan sold up after his father died. And I think they continued then to hold the service there, in that home with Issy Ryan. But they finished up there wasn't many Catholics left. There was only just an odd one. So they never used to hold any service then.
KATE. WAS ST.PAULS USED A FAIR BIT THEN?
ROLLO. Well, that was regularly, every week. And the Presbyterians, they held their service at the hall there, near the store.
KATE. NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET! (laughter)
PHYLLIS. (Rollo's wife) When we were first married, they used to hold the Catholic service down there where Moyna lives.
KATE. DID YOU USED TO HAVE THE PASTURE'S PROTECTION PEOPLE COMING AROUND THEN?
ROLLO. Yes. Just the same in those days as it is today.
KATE. SAME RABBITS, BLACKBERRIES ...
ROLLO. Yes, same thing.
KATE. WHAT DID THEY COME OUT IN?
ROLLO. I'm just not clear....in the early thirties, as far as I can remember, he came out on horseback.
KATE. SO PEOPLE WHO DID THAT AND THE MINISTER TOO, THEY WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO STAY OUT OVERNIGHT SOMEWHERE, WOULDN'T THEY. THAT LITTLE ROOM AT THE BACK OF THE SHOP, ABOVE THE POST OFFICE, WAS THAT A LITTLE PLACE TO STAY?
ROLLO. Everyone boarded at the wine bar, and when that was rebuilt again.....
KATE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, REBUILT?
ROLLO. After the hotel was burnt. They rebuilt then and had the wine bar licence.
KATE. SO THEY ADDED A BIT ON YOU MEAN?
ROLLO. No. It was new building.
KATE. SO THAT WAS ONLY BUILT AFTER THE PUB BURNT DOWN?
ROLLO. Yes. That was built after, yes. And that was the guest house and wine bar. Now I don't know whether Robertson's had that or whether it was Martin. But Martin comes along the way somewhere. But Martin had the store at one stage and Robertson's had the store at one stage. Gaits' came in there too because they had the wine bar.
KATE. SO THEY MUST HAVE HAD A BIT OF FUN AROUND THAT WINE BAR?
ROLLO. I dare say there was. Yes. Noisy turn out, so I was told......I'll just mention the mail runs too. When we come here well, Joe Arnold had Eden- Lower Towamba-Towamba and Pericoe. He had that run. Now the run then, Merv Rixon had.....that went from Towamba-Wyndham- Cathcart- Bombala. That was our outlet on our mails.
KATE. AND WHAT DID HE USE, A TRUCK?
ROLLO. They had cars. Joe Arnold had an Essex as far as I remember. Merv Rixon's was an Oldsmobile or a Studebaker and to travel by service, well you had to stay overnight at Wyndham.
KATE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, TRAVEL BY SERVICE. TO GET A LIFT WITH THE MAIL CAR?
ROLLO. Yes, by the mail car. Now the mail used to leave Towamba, I'm sure Merv Rixon went right through.
KATE. TO BEGA?
ROLLO. No. There was no service that way. That didn't come until about the war time.
KATE. SO THIS AREA WAS MORE CONNECTED TO BOMBALA.
ROLLO. Yes. Our mail went to Bombala and up by train to Sydney.
KATE. SO A LETTER TO SYDNEY WOULD TAKE A LONG TIME?
ROLLO. Merv Rixon had it from Towamba - Wyndham - and back to Pambula and then there was another service from Wyndham to Cathcart and Bombala. I know when Grandmother came down, she had to stay one night at Wyndham. She was travelling with the mail service. She had to stay one night coming in and she had to stay one night going out. So Merv Rixon may have had it from Towamba-Wyndham and back to Pambula and another service went from Wyndham-Cathcart-Bombala. I'm just not clear on that now. But that was before the service come right through from Bega. When it came right through down the coast it came from Bega then, straight out.
KATE. WAS THERE ONE OUT THROUGH ROCKTON?
ROLLO. There was one, years back, before my time. That used to go through on horseback.
KATE. I WENT OUT TO 'NUNGATTA' AND HAD A LOOK AT THE BUILDINGS OUT THERE.
ROLLO. Yes. The big homestead was built in about 1915-16. A builder called Phippard built that. He built the Commonwealth Bank in Sydney and he was under contract that if no cracks or faults came in the building in so many years that he was to be paid, the balance of his money, it was in the contract. He bought 'Nungatta Station' because the man never knew much about cattle or running a station and I just don't know who he had managing before Dad took over, but things didn't work out right and he had to sell up. There's been a long story to it.
KATE. THERE'S BEEN QUITE A FEW OWNERS OUT THERE.
ROLLO. I think....I can't remember who bought it after Phippard had to sell. He sold up because the Commonwealth Bank refused to pay him the balance of his money.
KATE. SO HIS BUILDING CRACKED?
ROLLO. Something went wrong somewhere.
KATE. WHO WERE THE PEOPLE WITH MONEY AROUND HERE WHEN YOU CAME.
ROLLO. Well, there were the Binnies, they were the upper class. They had the money. And there was ....well, not so much Alf (Alexander) but his wife and daughter. They were upper class.
KATE. DID THEY COME FROM OUTSIDE THE AREA?
ROLLO. Yes. Alf owned all Pericoe, the Station. The next line would have been Love's ('Elmgrove') and then Clements' ('Model Farm') and the Parker's.
KATE. SO THESE FELLOWS MARRIED WELL, DID THEY?
ROLLO. Well, Joy didn't in the long run. That was Alf's daughter.
KATE. DID THEY LIVE ON THE PROPERTY?
ROLLO. They lived on 'Hayfield'. They bought 'Hayfield' and I worked for them.
KATE. WHAT WAS HIS NAME?
ROLLO. Bill Martin.
KATE. THEY HAD A HOSPITAL OUT AT PERICOE AT ONE TIME, DIDN'T THEY?
ROLLO. That was at 'Hayfield'.
KATE. WAS IT EVER USED?
ROLLO. Well, I believe it was. It was for maternity cases. That's what it was mainly for.
KATE. IT WAS OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE.
ROLLO. There were a lot of families around there in those times.
KATE. I HAVE COPIES OF THE ELECTORAL ROLE IN THE TWENTIES AND THIRTIES AND THERE ARE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE AROUND THIS AREA. THERE WERE BINNIES EVERYWHERE AROUND BURRAGATE.
ROLLO. Herbert Binnie had 'Hill 'n' Dale, Harold Binnie had 'Dunblane', Alec Binnie had 'Log Farm' . Then there was Arthur Binnie .....
KATE. AND MOST OF THEM WERE BACHELORS?
ROLLO. Arthur was a bachelor. He never ever married. I think the others married. But I'm not clear on Alec. And Hazelgrove's came in there somewhere along the line.
KATE. AT BURRAGATE?
ROLLO. No. No connection with Burragate. This was early on. Old Laurie Greer, I'm sure his wife was a Hazelgrove. The one that was from 'Log Farm'. They were share farmers for Alec Binnie, I think that's where they came in.
KATE. ARE THERE ANY GRAVES AROUND HERE THAT AREN'T IN THE CEMETERY?
ROLLO. There's one grave I know of, the little girl that got burnt. She's buried on the property out there. It used to be fenced. It's in the pines now. (Annie Ryan, sister to Maria McMahon. See McMahon Interview.)
KATE. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE WHO WAS BURIED AT YAMBULLA?
ROLLO. Well, Ben's passed on now, no record left, but he said there was a mother and a child that both died at childbirth. They were buried there. Ben had the mail service to Yambulla. Where he started from, I don't know. That's where he comes in with Yambulla. Back in those times, there was a lot of labour. Corn growing and cropping and then there was the wattle bark, sleeper cutting and rabbit trapping. Every property owner had .....if he wasn't able to trap the rabbits himself, he would let trappers in. That was the livelihood of those times.
KATE. LEO FARRELL MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT 'NUNGATTA', IF YOU WANTED TO TRAP RABBITS OR STRIP WATTLE BARK, YOU HAD TO CLEAR A PORTION OF LAND FIRST.
ROLLO. Yes. That was right. I did that myself. Either that or paid for the paddock. If you couldn't see your way clear of say, ring-barking a certain amount, they'd say, well ring-bark four acres of ground. No particular place on the area. Just as long as you did four acres or what was allotted. And if you weren't able to do that, well you'd offer to pay so much for the paddock to trap in.
KATE. I SUPPOSE IT WAS A GOOD WAY TO GET YOUR PADDOCK CLEARED.
ROLLO. Well, it worked both ways because there was a fair bit of money in the rabbits in those days.
KATE. WAS IT ONLY THE SKIN?
ROLLO. Only the skin. The carcass didn't come till later.
KATE. DID YOU EAT A LOT OF RABBIT?
ROLLO. (laughter) Oh, yes. We ate them every way. We'd cut the main flesh off and mince it.
KATE. WERE THERE MANY FOXES AROUND THEN?
ROLLO. No, not as many as there is now because the fox was valuable for his skin. Everybody was after a fox. If you smelled him, you were after him. No, there was no trouble with foxes.
KATE. DID EVERYBODY HAVE A GUN THEN?
ROLLO. Mostly everyone had a shotgun. Or a rifle. Jack Tasker was good on the fox whistle and he only used the rifle to shoot them.
KATE. YOU HAD YOUR FOOTBALL, CRICKET....
ROLLO. And tennis.
KATE. MOYNA SAID THAT THE FOOTBALL FIELD USED TO BE NEXT TO THE WINE SHOP.
ROLLO. Yes. It just depends. They used to hold the football down on 'Parkside' some years. I don't know why they changed.
KATE. THEY HAD A CRICKET PITCH UP NEAR THE RACE COURSE.
ROLLO. Yes. Well that one, it was out of the way so Parker's put the pitch in their paddock so.....you know why? (laughter)
KATE. OH, YES. TO HAVE A WINE AFTER. (laughter) AND A WHINGE.
ROLLO. That's how the football went to Parker's paddock.
KATE. AN ENTREPRENEURIAL SHIFT, WAS IT?
ROLLO. A commercial move, that was. (laughter)
KATE. DID THEY HAVE HORSE RACES WHEN YOU WERE HERE?
ROLLO. No. It had closed. They had the rifle range.
KATE. THAT WAS UP THE BACK OF EDE'S.
ROLLO. No. That was over here (near the old racecourse). They moved it to over the back of Ede's later. That was the first one across here. I don't know what happened. They had some dispute over it. Then they shifted it up there (Ede's) then.
KATE. AND THE TENNIS TOO?
ROLLO. Yes. They'd play against Pericoe. There was a tennis club out at Rockton too. And then there was Towamba, Kiah, they'd have their competitions. There was always something going on.

AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS.